Charles Lee Mathews

Hatebook

As fear and loathing play out in this country, the real question is what can be done to mend SA’s racial divide?

In the aftermath of Eugene Terre’Blanche’s death and Julius Malema’s divisive tantrums, the social Web proved a powerful mirror to South Africa’s fractured soul. Hate speech and violent talk bled out onto Facebook pages at the same time that Dozi was mouthing drunken racial slurs and Steve Hofmeyr was making a fool of himself, yet again.

The racial tension so evident after Terre’Blanche’s violent death has been simmering for a long time. Well before the event, a virtual race war played out on Malema fan and protest pages on Facebook, over the issue of Julius Malema singing that song. The divide then was caused in part by a phantom going by the name of Thato Mbateti Mbateti, who used anonymity to spew hatred and dispense foreboding.

It’s not that simple

More recently a host of Facebook pages and social networking initiatives have sprung up in the naïve hope of being virtual band aids to what is a deep and complex social problem. If only it was that simple.

A society divided by massive disparity and inequality, yet until recently cloaked by the veneer of a “rainbow nation”, South Africa is easily disposed to racial tension. Our collective history is bloody, violent and pockmarked with racial and tribal wars.

This country is a living contradiction. We have a noble constitution with a world-leading Bill of Rights that legislates equality, social justice and democratic values. Yet we are a country of massive economic and social divides, in some economic categories amongst the most unequal in the world.

The ticking time bomb

South Africa’s jobless youth are what FM calls the country’s ticking time bomb. In March, the financial weekly reported that “2.5 million young people aged 18 to 24 are neither working nor in any kind of education or training”. South Africa has one of the highest rates of poverty globally, and the second highest Gini coefficient in the world, which indicates the gulf between the “haves” and the “have-nots”.

Clearly the systemic problems that dispose South Africa to racial tension can’t be fixed overnight. How then can we try to stem racial hatred both online and in the real world?

Professor Jonathan Jansen, vice-chancellor of the University of the Free State (UFS) is a compassionate voice of reason in the emotional madness of South Africa’s race debate. Jansen gave eloquent expression to South Africa’s race crisis during his inaugural speech at the UFS when he said:

“Who would have thought that barely a decade after the miracle of our transition we would be talking about “minorities” in a democracy founded on the principles of non-racialism? Who could have imagined that in Mandela’s country human appointments to jobs would be instructed by that calculating phrase, ‘the demographics of the country’? And who could have predicted the bare-knuckled violence that kills white farmers on their lands and foreign nationals on our streets, or that the poorest of black citizens would be felled by the racial anger of an 18-year-old white boy barely out of high school?”

What every South African should read

A fearless maverick, Jansen is the author of Knowledge in the Blood and Diversity High: Class, Colour, Character and Culture in a South African High School (with Saloshna Vandeyar). I first read about Jansen’s book last year in an inspired column by Marianne Thamm in which she declared Knowledge in the Blood required reading for each and every South African.

She’s one hundred percent right. Knowledge in the Blood is the story of the transformation of the University of Pretoria. The brave and frank account of how Jansen brought understanding of the majority black culture to a predominantly white institution to help create a racially integrated place of learning.

Our collective history is bloody, violent and pockmarked with racial and tribal wars.
But don’t make the mistake of thinking it’s a narrow cast educational narrative. The book is a blueprint for transformation, of how change can be achieved on both a social and personal level.

We need an agreed, common narrative

The book answers the mystery about how young Afrikaners both remember and enact an apartheid past they never lived. Importantly, the book offers hopeful insights for forging a new South African narrative. Not one based on some “Rainbow Nation” delusion, but based on understanding and restoration. Jansen argues that the oppressors and the oppressed need to find historical common ground by forging a collective and inclusive narrative of apartheid that is “mutually conceived and resolved”.

And what do we do about the hate in the meantime? In his recent column on TimesLIVE, Jansen reminds us that words matter:

“What we sing, or say in poetry, or teach in classrooms, can heal or hurt. As parents, teachers, public servants or politicians we dare not leave our children without a sense of hope. We need to nurture through words positive views of other people, especially those whom society insists are different from us.”

The question we need to ask ourselves as we vehemently take up our right to freedom of speech and dive into another round of Facebook activism is whether we are hurting or whether we are healing. Whether the energy we’re using on social networks couldn’t be better directed toward social restoration instead of unthinkingly deepening the divide.

Find ways to cross over

Speaking to my friend, the writer Andrew Miller, he reminds me that there is an “outstanding issue that is not currently in currency”. He says the words matter, but asks to what extent our words (and, by extension, our actions on social platforms), posturing and ideologies are a refuge from our physical isolation from each other? “How will we interact when we never interact save for the strict confines of corporate life?” He advocates an end to talking and calls for actions, saying we should find physical ways to cross over the physical divides we have created. And if we do, then we might find the words follow suit.

Miller’s saying that as long as we remain as structurally isolated as we are and nothing is done to bridge the chasm, we’re well and truly buggered.

Words matter. But actions matter more.

  • http://www.privateproperty.co.za Paul

    It is true that race relationships in our country are unstable. Like any new relationship the daters need to tread carefully and be sensitive to the needs of the other. That is why we need strong, sensitive and wise leadership to cement the bonds between the people in our country. Crudely stoking negative emotions of hate and distrust in your constituency to consolidate your power destroys the delicate threads of that bond and takes us back to the aprtheid days.

  • Hopeful

    Good article – the outcome of this disciplinary action will give much insight as to where this country is heading. For many the past few weeks have been a “tipping point”, as it’s simply becoming too risky.

  • http://southafricana.blogspot.com Dave Harris

    After almost two decades after liberation:
    – over 91% of the CEOs are white
    – over 80% of prime real estate is still in the hands of the previously privileged
    – people like Jonathan Jansen are now seen as “leaders”!!!
    – racism is still the biggest social issue that divides us
    – the majority of SA whites feign amnesia about centuries of racism and privilege
    I think we’ve passed the “tipping point”…time for change!

  • John

    @ Dave Harris

    The simple answer to your various questions are:

    If South Africa is to succeed, we must use the the most competent person to do each job. He/she who will extract the most value from that position must get the position.

    Think Aurora mine, The poor black mine workers weren’t paid for their honest work yet the two “Black Tenderpreneurs” took 2 million Rand out the business each month for themselves – Ouch!

    What about the land grab – 92% of the farms taken are a TOTAL failure in the black owners hands. Only 2% are as successful as they were under white stewardship. The result is MASSIVE job loss for the already poor (mainly black) farm workers. – Eyna!

    I have often discussed the Mbeki AIDS holocaust with you but think of the white doctor at Tugela Ferry who was prepared to defy the Mbeki ruling and treat these dying people (often with his own money!). He was fired! – Now that is painful!

    I ask you again – What has your great party, the ANC done for this troubled land of mine? How have they improved the Geni curve and empowered the masses. I can give you countless examples from ALL the other political and social groupings, yes even the AWB have made a contribution to poverty alleviation so where are the “Black Diamonds” and their patron, the despotic ANC.

    “If what we’re doing isn’t working, its time to try doing something different” – Stephen Covey

  • Watching Mubabwe

    @ Dave Harris

    Hi Dave, I have noticed your posts on MG and Thought leader for some time now. You have a real disdain for all things non-ANC, liberal and progressive. I was thinking, and I beg your pardon for not having a doctorate in intolerance as many bloggers, Malema supports, and any other rightfully frustrated poverty stricken South Africans seem to have developed over the past year, the question at hand is however, why after 16 years are people still so utterly frustrated with the slow progress of income and land redistribution? Why has BBBEE been so slow? Why have projects such as the N2 Gateway project been such a disaster, not to mention the HIV/AIDS fiasco under Mbeki? Well Dave, I ask you? What white, racist, divisive political menace has been in control of policy formation over the past 16 years? I am struggling to find one. In fact Dave, I don’t think there has been such a leader in control since the end of Apartheid. In fact, someone told me that the ANC have been in power. The same ANC who liberated the country. Why then is inequality still so prominent? I fear Dave, that the ANC may not in fact be ‘all for the people’. I fear Dave, that truly competent leadership is at fault.

    Lets find an ANC leader with an education that rivals that of Madiba shall we. I am all for it. Offer solutions, you may be the first – leave race out.

  • http://thoughtleader.co.za/rodmackenzie Rod MacKenzie

    Thanks for a thought-provoking (and action-inducing) blog, Mandy. I would love to get hold of Jonathan Jansen’s books here in New Zealand. Will approach libraries here which are excellent. His article on Newstime, which you led me to reading, was also insightful. Thanks again.

  • ian shaw

    Dave Harris:
    The oslution is simple. Throw out all of the 91% white CEOs and replace them with blacks. Expropriate all white-owned rpoeprty and give it to blacks. Fire Prof jansen and indict him for high treason. Send all whites to re-education camps and make them swear allegiance to the state.
    Mind you, this exact approach was followed by the Soviet Union. You know what hppened to them, except that a lot of good people were sacrificed in the process and the country eventually went broke.

  • Gustav Venter

    Removing the physical barriers, a process known as forced integration, is not a recipe for reconciliation but for disaster. We have two dominant cultures in South Africa – a Western European one and an African one. These two are not compatible. The best, the only, way for people of different cultures is to separate them geographically into partner states.
    The miraculous “reconciliation” at UP so whimperingly described by Jonathan Jansen, came at the huge expense of the Afrikaner students. Nobody has sacrificed more than the Afrikaner to make the New South Africa a success, yet one still has somebody like Dave Harris yodelling indignantly that it is not enough.
    For all our sakes, in order to prevent an horrific bloodbath, please, let sanity prevail over fuzzy-wuzzy ideals, and let the discourse on the division of the country start. It is our only hope.

  • alisdair Budd

    Why dont you do what we’ve been doing for forty years in the “North” and learn from each other?

    I give you an example whereby the Scottish White Celtic radio DJ Mary Ann Kennedy is giving a radio program on (Radio Scotland) into Africa’s influence on world music art and culture.

    If you’d like to go through the entire 5 hour program, you will notice it also includes Arabic African music and contains background history notes like the mention of the Songhai Empire in Niger:

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/b00rzkj6/Culture_Zone_15_04_2010/

    Available on public access BBC iplayer, throughout the Internet connected world.

    Remember this the next time that Malema chucks a BBC reporter out of a public press conference for being a “bloody”, “White” “agent” for pointing out he lives in the same up market suburb he’s trying to slag off the MDC for using, to criticise Mugabe.

    Might realise how stupid you all look like to the average Glaswegian Granny listening to the BBC Culture zone on the radio.

  • Jack

    @Dave Harris:

    – over 91% of the CEOs are white

    A massive indictment of black’s failure to create companies within which to appoint black CEOs, don’t you think?

    – over 80% of prime real estate is still in the hands of the previously privileged

    Prime real estate achieved that status through the efforts of the previously privileged. Prime real estate is something you make. You don’t pick it up somewhere.

    – racism is still the biggest social issue that divides us

    A massive indictment of the struggle heroes’ failure to implement the non racial society they purportedly killed people for, don’t you think?

    – the majority of SA whites feign amnesia about centuries of racism and privilege

    I think you’re wrong – white South Africans are simply increasingly unwilling to grant credence to the type of distorted language you indulge in.

  • Robard

    Citing the Gini coefficient is really meaningless in the context of an economy of a mixed tiny first and overwhelming third world component. In terms of levels of absolute poverty we still fare better than the better part of the rest of the world. If we didn’t SA wouldn’t have been a magnet for immigrants from as far afield as China and Somalia. And that is part of the problem: as long as we continue to let in immigrants who are worse off than our own poor, the distribution of wealth will become more unequal.

    Since we already have the highest ratio of wellfare recipients to taxpayers in the world, the only other way of solving the problem of a very high Gini coefficient is by following Zimbabwe’s example – get rid of the wealthy.

  • JB

    Well writ!

  • http://hismastersvoice.wordpress.com The Creator

    Joking aside:

    The racist responses to this weblog entry (oo aren’t Afrikaners wonderful, darkies can’t run companies or governments, etc., etc.) are powerful evidence for the content of the weblog entry.

    However, while I like Marianne Thamm as a person, she is at best a waterhead and at worst a catspaw. Jansen is nobody’s saviour; he happens to be a clever man at adapting to circumstances with the assistance of the Afrikaner establishment.

    The core problems are the persistence of white racism (which was never addressed after the destruction of apartheid) and the steady growth of economic inequality (about which nothing has been done; BEE is a farce and AA only addresses the middle class). Blaming the victims of these problems does not get anybody anywhere.

    To this extent, Mr. Harris is both smarter and better-adjusted than the people who are attacking him, despite his Zumaphilia and his acerbic style.

  • Greg

    Dave Harris, could you please elaborate as to what I (I`m white) should do, should I hand over up my job to a black person? Should I tear up my qualifications I obtained through hard work and sacrifice (The goverment never anything for me to get where i am)? Should i build a time machine and attempt to change the past? Should we just fire all the CEO`s of companies and replace them with blacks? Should i invite a black family to take over my home while I continue to repay the bond? Should i hand them my car & furniture on the same proviso?
    “Amenesia” about racism, no I don`t think so, we are however faced with certain realities, yes apartheid happened, yes it was wrong, you and all South Africans should accept that it`s going to take a number of years to erase/reverse the past, it cannot happen overnight, unless you want us to take the Zimbabwe route where everyone loses! The utterances of JAM are not helping the issue. Foreign investment, yes money from those very same (mostly) whites that we wish dead is the only way forward to creating jobs and a sustainable future for all. There will always be those lazy/useless elements in society that will want to obtain their wealth with the least amount of effort or do crime, drugs etc, they end up in aposition where they deserve to be, thats just reality, deal with it.

  • Greg

    Dave Harris, could you please elaborate as to what I (I`m white) should do, should I hand over up my job to a black person? Should I tear up my qualifications I obtained through hard work and sacrifice (The goverment never anything for me to get where i am)? Should i build a time machine and attempt to change the past? Should we just fire all the CEO`s of companies and replace them with blacks? Should i invite a black family to take over my home while I continue to repay the bond? Should i hand them my car & furniture on the same proviso?
    “Amenesia” about racism, no I don`t think so, we are however faced with certain realities, yes apartheid happened, yes it was wrong, you and all South Africans should accept that it`s going to take a number of years to erase/reverse the past, it cannot happen overnight, unless you want us to take the Zimbabwe route where everyone loses! The utterances of JAM are not helping the issue. Foreign investment, yes money from those very same (mostly) whites that we wish dead is the only way forward to creating jobs and a sustainable future for all. There will always be those lazy/useless elements in society that will want to obtain their wealth with the least amount of effort or do crime, drugs etc, they end up in a position where they deserve to be, thats just reality, deal with it.

  • Panchetta

    As per Gustav Venter above,

    Would the black people of this country please consider returning the favour, and create a homeland or homelands for whites, as was done during apartheid to blacks. These imposed Mlungustans would be suitable payback for the way blacks were treated in the bad years. These could prove to be life-saving breadbaskets to have handy for the time when black South Africa becomes destitute. Don’t worry, we will feed you as we always have. Promise.

  • Jack

    @The Creator

    There are no racist responses to this weblog entry. ‘Racist’ as a word has long ago lost any meaning and its sole purpose nowadays is as a straw man to prop up a lame argument. As you have done.

    Alternatively, it roughly means: “I don’t like you and I which to imply that you are dumb, although I have the horrible suspicion that you’re much smarter than me”.

  • MLH

    I don’t have a job. Someone else already has it. If he/she is earning as much as I was, he/she is not doing too badly. He/she is earning far more than I do now. Who’s poor?
    As for the genie coefficient…If you are brave enough to stand your ground as all those rioting protesters flash past your eyes at a DUT riot, you will notice their expensive, branded, labelled clothing. What do you think? People who own houses have stopped keeping cash in the house? Is all that’s left to steal the clothing?
    Get real! The genie coefficient works in countries where everyone is contributing to tax. You’ll be telling me next that car hi-jackers, prostitutes, druglords and politicians are all poor (and expecting me to believe it). They aren’t all poor, they’re just not regulated. Talk about the great unbanked!

  • Jan

    Well written, Mandy. The fact that Dave’s comment sparked more comment than your article proves your point. C’mon guys – you’re getting distracted here. Mandy’s right: We have to focus on a new way forward – rather than looking back all the time. Things will change, and we can be participants or victims. It’s our choice. No-one said it would be easy.

  • Steve

    That the development of the black communities in South Africa is lagging is primarily as a result of what others (the whites) have done, is bunkum. People like Dave Harris know this, and it is knowing this truth that irks them so. To acknowledge the truth of the situation would require them to be brutally honest with themselves, and to roll up their sleeves and get working; but that is a challenge too uncomfortable, and too onerous and demanding; and so they hide behind a smokescreen of blame and bluster. And get nowhere. And it will remain so even if the kind of change they threaten comes to pass. The simple truth is, they will only progress when they are honest with themselves, and get working towards the future; if they spent just a fraction of the time and energy they do on justifying their lack of performance, they would be a lot more successful, and a lot happier with themselves.

  • Mike

    @ Dave Harris
    The irony of Dave Harris is that he lives in Cape Town in a well run, well appointed, formerly “white” suburb and spends his time slagging off the DA!

    Bet you that he doesnt have the courage to respond to Gregs comments, just like he would never move to a township or an ANC run city. Gutless as always, Dave.

  • Gunslinger

    Dave Harris

    As Greg said, tell me what I must do. I do not own any land in South Africa, I financed my studies through a bank loan, I work very hard to pay my taxes, rent, car-payments ect. ect. When you talk about “whites”, do you refer to me too? I’m not like I’m rich, or a CEO or a owner of huge properties!

    What exactly do you want from me? Do you want to redistrubute my wealth after you repaying my loans?

    I do not feign amnesia about South Africa’s racist past, but I also did not create it. I could only vote for the first time in 1999. Most whites are sorry apartheid ever happend and want to work together with blacks towards a better future. The only thing I can do in to behave like a proper citizen pay my taxes and be nice to everybody regardless of race.

    But that is probably not enough for Dave.

  • X Cepting

    Wow, intense! The one thing which seems to escape both camps here (where are the hopeful neutrals?) is the fact that we South Africans are already integrated. We are united by our suffering at the hands of the other. Stop being selective about history, look at all of it on all sides, there isn’t just two sides, that’s bumfluff). For all those who ask what to do: Reach out, dammit! It is not so difficult. Next time, you whitey/darky/ brownie sees a member of the other side, SMILE dammit, GREET, TALK ABOUT THE WEATHER, KIDS, CRIME. We all have them, high food prices and corrupt businessmen in common. It is the simple actions that start the transformations, not apartheid in mufti (BBBEE). With particular note to some Afrikaners like Gustav Venter : stop acting like hot-house flowers, being in contact with another person’s culture won’t demolish your own and why do you think you need special treatment anyway? Wake up man, you and Harris is part of the problem, not the solution. I really don’t see why the colour of CEO’s becomes such an issue, they are a teensy part of any culture and all one happy, conniving family, black/white/yellow/brown, the majority from whichever group does not benefit from anything. A Breitling watch can buy 10 low cost houses. Giving the street kids a Christmas tree and sweets once a year really does not help them at all. Get real everyone.

  • Tlanch Tau

    @Paul on April 19th, 2010 at 1:24 pm
    Interesting how you mention that in any “new relationship”,- What I have been hearing all along is “It’s been 16 years already and shall we just get on with it?”, so I am getting a bit confused here, which one is which? And notice how you mentioned lack of Leadership and to me it sounds like you are pointing to lack of black leaders or the lack of the current ANC leadership to take control of the situation and I say what about white Leaders? We have always had the Nelson Mandelas and the Desmond Tutu’s of this world trying to make sure that this country works, but their white counterparts are mum and they just want to see everything swept under the carpet and for everyone to just get along. Well guess what, it’s not going to happen. We need to talk about this, just like Juju said in an interview “Transformation in our lifetime”.

    Reality is we have a big culture of sweeping things under the carpet in SA, we haven’t confronted the issue of transforming our country and if you haven’t noticed the race issues in SA goes hand in hand with the economic transformation of this country. I always say to most white people that asks me about the current state of affairs to do their bit to make sure that transformation happens in SA.

  • http://southafricana.blogspot.com Dave Harris

    @Greg
    I wish I could say here is a how-to guide to overcome racism and apartheid’s destruction but I don’t have all the answers for you.
    What does come to mind though is Mahatma Gandhi’s advice to a Hindu who spoke of his fears of feared going to Hell after he killed a Muslim child in the ensuing violent Hindu-Muslim riots that gripped India after Pakistan was carved out by the British just before independence. Here is what Gandhi said: “I know a way out of Hell. Find a child, a child whose mother and father have been killed and raise him as your own. Only be sure that he is a Muslim and that you raise him as one.”

    The evil and brutality perpetrated by apartheid for generations cannot be undone by simply changing the laws. As Tlanch Tau point out as well, each one of us needs to transform and act in some way to clean up the mess.

  • Cobus De Wet

    I must say this Rainbow thing is hard work,300 years in America and the rainbow is still Black and White,what hope have we really got. In the end I must agree with Gustav, That homeland is looking good. Just hope that the present regime will extend that same hand of friendship and fund it as well. Ag! Pleez! Mr. Zuma or maybe I should ask President Malema give us a homeland and you will be rid of us forever.Just think how lekker that will be for you. No more “White Things” or “Agents” or whatever we are to bother you in your creation of a wealthy state for your people.You can get rid of the “White Gevaar” once and for all. We dont need much,a patch of desert somwhere with a bit of coastline will do. Like that place in the south that is so badly run,you know man that stuffed up place,whats it called again. Oh! Yes Capetown, the place where the terrible settlers first landed, it only brings back bad memories for you lot in anycase.We promise to behave and eventually even trade with you, you know when we get our act together in 10000 years or so.

  • brent

    Tlanch Tau, ask Helen Zille what happens to whites who try and make a political difference. The deludge of hate reminds the rest of us to keep out of politics and focus on helping those around us.
    Keep the head down and do the right thing around you is the action.

    Please tell me exactly what “to do their bit to make sure transformation happens in SA” – please not just words detail exactly what we MUST DO, and Dave H if you can spare a few minutes from your hate speech your wise words on ACTIONS required from whites would be appreciated.
    Otherwise both of you get going and practice what you preach.

    Brent

  • Oldfox

    @Dave,

    You cannot drive forward if you keep focusing on the rear view mirror. This is taught in business schools, but it applies to life in general.
    Other countries have overcome their past, including Vietnam after the Vietnam wars lasting 30 years, China (the Mongol genocide in the 13-14th centuries killed half of all Chinese, and then China lost 100 million people to unnatural deaths during 140 years is misery starting in the from the 1840s), the Ukranians who survived Stalin’s “Holodomor” (mass killing via deliberate starvation).

    The TRC was flawed, but we cannot now have a TRC II. The young can learn about the past from school history books, and from their parents. We have to move forward, to advance in socio-economic terms. Discrimination between races will always there, tribalism can flare up from time to time, this is because humans are imperfect. Likewise, the strong will discriminate against the weak, the rich against the poor, men against women.

    In this imperfect world, we in South Africa have to make the country a better place. I don’t believe that the majority of the poor, of the unemployed blame the past for their problems.

  • Phemelo

    @Mandy
    I sometimes wonder why people like you and me bother to comment on these blogs whose main contributors are either condescending/patronizing Whites or simply racist. Look at Panchetta’s and Cobus De Wet’s comment on the homelands issue. Homelands were created as reserves for us Africans for separate development purposes and further entrench non-antagonistic contradictions. Nowadays we still are conscious of who is Mosotho or Moswati fortunately most of us realised the evil that was brought and prefer to see ourselves as Africans than as ethnic groups. That is one amnesiac aspect mentioned above not succinctly put forth.

    @Jack
    Are you forgetting that your forefathers came here in 1652 and what happened thereafter was plundering of the land for the beautification and upkeep of Europe? Genocide was the order of the day because how do you explain pink skinned people coming to contact with tan skinned people and saying they are savages? Why is there a shortage of people speaking the Khwe, Khu and Nama languages in the Cape? You see our forefathers showed ubuntu/botho and welcomed your forefathers with open arms. Over the years the relationship that developed was that of master/servant and not of guest/host. Our minerals were extracted and our livestock taken in cases were land had to be grabbed. In some cases some funny diseases were introduced to our livestock. The knowledge and education obtained (”stolen”) in Afrika by the Greeks then used in Europe was then distorted back to

  • Phemelo

    …continued from above.
    Afrika. Our response was to ultimately react to colonialism and apartheid. What did we get in return in 1994, THE RIGHT TO VOTE? No compensation was discussed. The constitution of our country was designed to accommodate White fears including protection of property, mines and the economy as a whole. That is the price we paid for compromising instead of intensifying the ARMS STRUGGLE internally and externally. Now you stand on your high horse to come and tell us to, with the majority vote, change the status quo.

    So long as the institutions were set up to secure White fears are still entrenched, not even a majority vote can change things over 16 years. If we had taken the country back by force, things would have been different. A wealthy country in natural resources like South Africa would not have been left to be taken over by Communisits cause the White world had its way. I am talking here of laws by Reagan and Thatcher pushed through the UN.

    Dave Harris is right. We did not deal with racism properly after 1994. Given the nation state created after 1994, we also followed the rest of Afrika. Economy remained in White hands (former colonial master) and the vote in Afrikan hands. If you want to see what I mean just look at the number of laws amended and introduced. For instance section 25 of our constitution safeguards the land in White hands. For us to get back land we need

  • Phemelo

    Afrika. Our response was to ultimately react to colonialism and apartheid. What did we get in return in 1994, THE RIGHT TO VOTE? No compensation was discussed. The constitution of our country was designed to accommodate White fears including protection of property, mines and the economy as a whole. That is the price we paid for compromising instead of intensifying the ARMS STRUGGLE internally and externally. Now you stand on your high horse to come and tell us to, with the majority vote, change the status quo.

    So long as the institutions were set up to secure White fears are still entrenched, not even a majority vote can change things over 16 years. If we had taken the country back by force, things would have been different. A wealthy country in natural resources like South Africa would not have been left to be taken over by Communisits cause the White world had its way. I am talking here of laws by Reagan and Thatcher pushed through the UN.

  • Phemelo

    Dave Harris is right. We did not deal with racism properly after 1994. Given the nation state created after 1994, we also followed the rest of Afrika. Economy remained in White hands (former colonial master) and the vote in Afrikan hands. If you want to see what I mean just look at the number of laws amended and introduced. For instance section 25 of our constitution safeguards the land in White hands. For us to get back land we need to pay exorbitant fees for stolen land under the guise of market related prices. For goodness sake why pay for the whole 17 000 hectares whereas only 2000 is irrigable and only 500 is grazing?

    @Brent
    Hellen Zille opposes for the sake of entrenching and securing White fears. Why is she so vocal against BEE, transformation and AA? Some of the issues she raises do not even start to address racism. Look how she normally is silent on Whites shooting/attacking Blacks on farms. Instead we must hear her opposition to Judge Hlope as if that will put food on the poor or return land back to its rightful owners. In fact the mere presence of Hlope on the bench may guarantee that cause he may preside over cases of land restitution.

    I will not rest my case so long as South Africa remains a living hell for our people.

  • Tlanch Tau

    @brent on April 21st, 2010 at 8:40 pm
    In doing your bit I meant getting rid of racist tendencies(love this word since it was used by Malema), around you. Talk and challenge your fellow whites when you pick up that they are actually being racist. Do your bit to stop institutional racism in South Africa, we know it is still there(Read the Invisible Black Professional by Wiseman Magagula) if want to know what I am talking about. Transformation my man is not just about money, it’s about changing the attitude of both blacks and whites, the moment you change the attitudes of people there will really be true reconciliation(part of the transformation that I am talking about) in SA. Accept that economic transformation is needed in SA to make this country work. I can give you more examples if need be. Just shout if you want me to.

  • John

    @ Tlanch Tau

    The racist black colonists in my country sicken me – they’ve contributed so little to our great nation yet they continue to dance round singing “Gi-me Gi-me Gi-me.

    Lets just quickly put some aspects of our failed black politicians into perspective (as I seem to have to do so often with poor Dave! How did Dave get an English name, he should choose a suitable African one.

    The Afrikaaner started to arrive in 1652, the Zulus arrived 160 years later and later started their mass colonisation and murder (1 to 2 million died) under the great Chaka/Shaka. The Xhosa/Khosa were only 80 years earlier. This means that the Afrikaaner colonists were here first, even the French beat both Xhosa and Zulu. The 1829 English arrived after the Xhosa but before the Zulu.

    Now, what I suggest is that we hand the country back to the Koi San, represented by the East and West Griekwa People. Strange how Griekwas have been TOTALLY excluded from government. Unlike our despodic Zulu king, their local “King” receives no assistance from the ANC government, but then they were conquered by both black and white alike so maybe they deserve nothing.

    I have Koi San blood in me (as do almost all Afrikaaners) so I DEMAND that those black people who conquered us Koi San go back to Zimbabwe – Do you see now how really stupid your argument is.

  • Oldfox

    @John,

    If you wish to quote history, you should be precise, or as accurate as possible, at least with that which is well known. While the Zulu nation was indeed formed only a few years before the 1820 settlers (not 1829!)arrived, the Zulu nation was formed from clans that were here since the early 1700s.
    Our knowledge of the early non San and non Khoisan people in what is now SA is very limited. Bantu were here around the 9th century AD, probably in very small numbers. There is archeological evidence e.g. iron age implements – to prove this.

  • Tlanch Tau

    @John on April 26th, 2010 at 9:11 am
    Dude, I am not interested in who arrived in South Africa first and in what year. What I am interested in is that right here and now blacks makes up 80 percent of the population in SA and the economy of the country should reflect that. The economy needs to represent the demographics of this country.

    I believe this is the goal we need to be pushing towards and stop this nonsense about BEE as it is only enriching a few blacks, while whites still continue to exploit the economy just as they did ages ago.

  • John

    @ Oxford
    According to Sogga, the Xhosa tribe originated in East Africa and probably arrived about 1740. The whites trecking north first clashed with them in 1752 at the Great Fish River as they trekked south.

    The Khosa (note spelling) had no written language or documented grammar until James McLaren, wrote the dictionary and documented the language structure in 1905. The history was then reduced to writing both by educated Khosa and members of the London Missionary Society. That history is vastly different to the history rewritten 100 years later (2006) and the new history does not correlate with other South African history. (The new khosa history should be catalogued under fiction).

    Why Khosa and not Xhosa, because my great grandfather, James McLaren said “Xhosa in Xhosa, Khosa in English” and he should know, he wrote the language.

    @Tlanch Tau
    Success is a fragile thing, attempt to steal it from me and you get an empty worthless shell. Work for it the way the Indians have and your children are richly rewarded. Indians arrived as indentured workers, almost slaves with much less than the Zulus. Now the Zulus are jealous of the Indian’s amazing success.

    Look at the failed USSR to see where where your ill conceived policy will lead South Africa. Otherwise just look at Zimbabwe!

  • Oldfox

    @John,

    Are you implying that the Wikipedia entry on the Zulus is wrong about the date the Nguni tribes were thought to have settled in KZN? I have read numerous articles on Shaka and the Zulus, and most give early 17th century as the date the clans that later formed the Zulu nation, were in what is today KZN.

    W.r.t. South Africans of Indian descent, while the majority who arrived around 1860 were indentured labourers, they were accompanied by a small number of traders, and others who rendered services to the indentured labourers. Many of the SA Indian business class (many of whom are Muslim, or high caste Hindus) are descendants of the original business class that settled here.

    One of the things I disliked very much about India, is the discrimination practiced there. In the state of Tamil Nadu, hardly any businesses are owned by Tamils. In my opinion, they’re an underclass in their own state.

  • John

    There is debate whether the Nguni were in Northern Natal or South Western Zimabwe. The question is how the substantial number of Xhosa people passed through land occupied by the Nguni. There is little doubt that this migration was caused by the slave trade further North – Zanzibar and Mombasa. These only became powerful in about 1700 and tribes moved south after this. Pity the Bantu couldn’t write their history.

    Which ever way you look at it, Koi San and Afrikaaner had been here a before the Bantu.

    Our Indian is South African first, of Indian origin second.

    More than a quarter of indentured indians had a trade or profession. Many could read Sanskrit. An old friend speaks of his father, an indentured worker who was employed building roofs. The indentured worker understood complex geometry. His son, this old man is a barely literate farm worker. This man’s son trained as a boiler maker and is now foreman and his grandson will be a BSC engineer. WOW!

    We got good Indians, the Indian famine of the late 1870’s forced many to take up indenture rather than starve. We see the benefits of the Indenture Board’s careful selection 130 years later.

    South African Indians find the caste system disturbing. What is surprising is that marriage is often still a family decision, sometimes even arranged. Love is of less importance than a good social fit. Old Indian Aunties say this is why there are less divorces amongst Indians.